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Governance

Edition One

Café sûr le pont - Edition 1
By Cafe sur la Pont |

2021-10-31

Café sûr le pont Edition One

☕ Cafe sur le pont Edition One 🌉 was hosted by Nori and Felix on Zoom on Saturday, 16th October 2021.

Website

Check out the Café sûr le pont bridgebuilders Website and Youtube channel.

Café sûr le pont intro:

Café sûr le pont (Coffee on the bridge) is the very first iteration of an open call to discuss highly relevant topics in regard to the Cardano Voltaire Era. In particular, to talk about the evolution of the community, possibilities, visions, and ideas.

At Café sûr le pont, the greater Cardano community gather to engage in an informal conversations on a variety of timely topics. This conversation is not intended to drive action items or agendas, but rather to open up silos, bring the entire community together on a personal and human level, to put faces to names, and connect people and ideas.

Voltaire

The subject being discussed is broadly “Voltaire” - an “era of Cardano will provide the final pieces required for the Cardano network to become a self-sustaining system” (Cardano Roadmap).

Summary Keywords

The SUMMARY KEYWORDS from this meetings transcript :

community, people, create, values, archetypes, commons, question, catalyst, happening, important, intention, blockchain, build, environment, play, conversation, world, system

Speakers

Ian, Heinz, Dean, Noah, Oscar, Felix, Len, Mihaela Ulieru, Steve, Nick, Aharon, Ernesto, Gary, Yoram, Nori, Ricardo

Nori - Welcome

Welcome everybody to the first edition of the Cafe sur le pont.

Cafe sur le pont is being held by a new experimental initiative called bridge builders.

Events like this are kind are the very first iteration of what we want to start and what we want to do. We’re still evolving. We hope to be a small or growing community of people who love doing these kinds of things and connecting people connecting organizations having conversations.

We’re kicking this off because Cardano is entering the era of Voltaire and Decentralized Governance and we are looking at ways in which IOG can step aside and handover a $1.5 billion treasury to community control. That is something that nobody knows how to do yet. So, we are here to figure this out. We are not here to make decisions, raise action items or things like that, but rather to have conversations. To break down silos to meet each other as people.

Please enter this space with open hearts and open minds. Nobody is here in any official capacity. We’re here as people and human beings, and we just want to have a conversation. That is why it is called Cafe sur le pont. We are here drinking coffee as friends and having an open conversation on how we transition things. To get a diversity of ideas and thoughts to cross pollinate between each other. That is the purpose here. - precis of Nori - - 0:03

Felix - a common ground

Café sur la pont is also to provide a common place where we all have the possibility to communicate to people from the various Cardano entities such as IOG, Emurgo and the Cardano foundation.

A common ground where people from different groups can come together and do not have to represent themselves in any official role. Bur rather coming and joining together as community members. To get an idea of each other’s visions, ideas, and ambitions. Thanks for joining everyone and have a lovely weekend. – precis of Felix - 1:51

Nori - guidelines

So, there’s no formal structure to this, we don’t have an agenda, it’s an open conversation. As topics and themes and conversations develop, feel free to jump in.

If you would like the floor next, just raise your hand and we’ll take them in the order of people raising their hands. It’s not a hard and fast rule. But it’s just kind of common courtesy. That’s one of the tools we use here on Zoom. And make liberal use of the reactions. If you love something, give a thumbs up or a heart or a smiley face. Participate in that way. The chat is also open, and many people have side conversations there. - precis of Nori - 2:49

Heinz - Upcoming professional users of Cardano

I’m here of course as enthusiastic community member. But until a couple of days ago I was leading digital transformation at AB InBev supply operations. So, we are romancing with joint activity. This is all about a public permissionless blockchain for a large industry venture. Of course, my private interest goes far beyond that.

But the governance topic is extremely important for upcoming professional users of Cardano. To really to be able to rely on what we are doing. To feel safe. If a community takes over the future, the innovation, and the governance of such an experiment I think it’s very important to radiate trust. And to do this bearing in mind that there is a growing number of users. So what we are doing and how we are doing this is very important. - precis of Heinz - 4:09

Nick - centropy - emerging environments - play environments

Governance is not just about voting. And Ernesto mentioned a couple of important key points. That centropy really comes from emerging environments. I think an emerging environment is very different from an iterative environment. Iterative environments are more evolutionary and emerging environment are more revolutionary. That is an innovative environment.

Where we get to come together and just play and really provide for those interactions and see what blossoms. An environment that’s conducive to bringing people together, increasing curiosity, increasing interactions. Driving a new language but still built on the base of an original language, which is our unconscious. Like using Myers Briggs which is an example of an archetype.

That is still connecting to unconscious themes that we all experience as a human species. Being able to do that drives curiosity. When we’re allowed and funded to play. I think that is where centropy starts to come in. In ways we couldn’t even imagine. I almost see we might need two separate environments as catalyst moves towards this iterative problem and solution focused environment. Sometimes you need a whole play environment where curiosity can take hold you. And if that is funded, you’re going to get the best out of the people. The best ideas come out of this kind of like play environment where mistakes can be made. - precis of Nick - 5:49

Len - industry or governments needing consistency.

I just want to focus on Heinz’s point about industry or governments needing consistency. I go back to that first Fireside Chat between Frederik Gregaard and Charles Hoskinson, where I saw Charles taking notes. And Frederik said very clearly you’re not going to get industry to put their mission critical systems on a blockchain that can be changed by a nameless community. They just won’t do it. And so I think that that you have to consider this governance issue very carefully. - precis of Len - 7:52

Mihaela Ulieru - Game B, Bonita Roy, play and playgrounds, emergence and design

I was inspired to bring this to the fore of our thoughts, especially regarding what Nikolas (Nick) said about the need for a space for play. Where ideas flow freely.

I experienced this already because I cheated a bit yesterday when Felix eased me with a preparatory discussion and then I had an opportunity to practice a bit this play.

This reminded me of a community I have been involved in called Game B. It’s exactly the opposite of top down. How industry is organized today.

So, we experimented with play and it’s amazing what is happening through emergence, it exists, and it is very powerful. I feel good to be in this community right now, I can call it bridge builders, but maybe we don’t have a name yet.

A philosopher of science, Bonita Roy, brought a few of us, about 20 people on her farm. And we were playing with each other and with horses. Just like Café sur la pont, but in person. It was amazing.

I wanted to point to what Ernesto was saying, because we need to redesign that is how you challenge the person.

Immediately this this word design. We are willing our way to design or redesign. I think this emergence and play are very important. This community is so powerful. First, because the people in need are amazing thinkers, and I’m always learning from this.

The way in which systems in society are currently structured people climb to the top in various ways. And I managed to climb to the top in the academic world, against a lot of odds and with much hardship.

There is so much there that is not considered, and the real power is overlooked in this structure. So how do we unleash this is something which has preoccupied me a lot.

I have an issue with the word redesign. Does redesign involve emergence and how it is linked with emergence?

To respond to Heinz, yes, these are extremely valid points. But the question is now, what do we want to do? Do we want to play with the old world by their rules? And why? So that’s, that’s the first question for me.

And I see Charles (Hoskinson) doing both. What I want to believe that he is putting, planting Trojan horses in the industry and government offices, and seeding experiments such as Catalyst. This is starting some movement from which other movements … and I have the wrong words. I don’t know if this is a movement, whatever it is, a community playground. Catalyst is a focal point of inspiring such playgrounds.

So, he’s (Charles Hoskinson) covering both ends.

I believe there is a point in playing with the big guys and the industry. My question is how much do we want, and I am speaking for myself, to prostitute ourselves and play with the industry by their rules still? How much do we really want to be ourselves on this playground? - precis of Mihaela - 8:55

References :

Heinz - impact of distributed ledger technologies

Just a short response. My personal perspective is much wider than the needs of industry. Also, I left my job at the end of September, and I am now in the University of Malta also engaged in blockchain activities. So personally, I think that also by introducing distributed ledger technologies, blockchains, to large companies, it’s not just technology, it is also triggering so many things within these companies. So, the trojan horse analogy is a good one. - precis of Heinz - 13:51

Reference

– Center for Distributed Ledger Technologies, University of Malta - https://www.um.edu.mt/dlt

Yoram - identity and values

We spoke already a lot about inspiration. A lot of the people in the conversation already did a sudden transition. To what inspired them, what motivated them. I will take it to another level, what disturbed me for many years is identity. What is identity? The differences between most of the governments today in the world is defined by identity. What we were born with.

People are here because they are looking for a different identity based on values somehow. What is the inspiration that is being created? How can we inspire more people? What is the inspiration that we can create to have this new identity that will make the world somehow better for the citizen and for nature?

We have people from all over the world here and we have so many common things that we are building together. What fascinates people to come and do more? - precis of Yoram - 14:47

Mihaela Ulieru - Which values ?

I would just say just one more thing, a tweak. Because which values? Everybody has values. I am sure industry CEOs have their own values. Even the predators have their values, how much prey? How many eyeballs? So, which value? - precis of Mihaela - 16:29

Yoram - Common values

If we take religious values, Muslim, Jewish or Christian values, you will get the same values. But everyone thinks that they have the best values. But it is the same in essence. We are trying, at least here, to build values that are above us, that are connected to climate change. Connected to a more equal world that is above our identity. - precis of Yoram - 16:50

Steve - How can Catalyst prevent being gamed ?

I have a fundamental question. I have been in the Catalyst community for over a year now. I try to pay attention to what IOG, what the Cardano Foundation is doing and appreciate the high-level thought and research into all these things.

I try to pay attention to what everybody thinks about on the high level, the gamesmanship, the game theory, and the protecting against bad actors. Down here at this ground level of community and in Catalyst we want to play, and I appreciate your speaking about it that way because I consider it that way too. But what I have noticed is that we’re having a hard time as a community addressing how Catalyst can prevent being gamed and avoid wasting time with people who don’t really understand what we’re doing.

People who are getting involved in what we’re doing because it’s open and permissionless which I want. But I don’t want to waste time on people who don’t even understand what we’re doing.

When I brought this up in conversations that we need to funnel out the unintelligent or unintelligible people who are engaging in Catalyst. The responses are that leads to gatekeeping and authoritarian abuses. And I get that. But it seems to me it should be possible to do this weeding out process so that we are not jumping up and down in place and never going anywhere. - precis of Steve - 17:50

Noah - Practical virtue ethics.

I just wanted to respond to what Mihaela was saying about values. I think that values, virtues, moral philosophy in general, the field of ethics, is quite practical. One of the points that I always keep coming back to is, Aristotle had a principle, that virtues must be ranked, or goods must be ranked. And if goods conflict you must put one good over the other good.

But if you take this to a certain limit eventually you get to a highest good, which is not really something specific, but kind of a concept.

But you find that when you are making goods, they don’t always conflict often they support each other. Often when you’re optimizing for some value or virtue, you consider which goods conflict. And if it’s difficult to decide it might be possible to restructure that question. To try to understand how I should prioritize virtues that help each other, rather than are against each other.

That can be an effective principle to use when determining aspects of systems, when it comes to human rights and human dignity. To find those sets of things that promote general well-being in people. - precis of Noah - 21:51

Nori – Balancing the autonomy of the individual and protecting the community.

Thanks Noah, I think that is an important topic. What are the values we are driving towards the community? And do we all have the same ones?

Often, as I think Derek mentioned earlier, voting isn’t the end solution, we should reach things by consensus. But that is only possible if we’re all driving towards the same goal. If we are all going in different directions consensus is almost impossible.

I also mentioned in chat that our bodies have immune systems that fight off invaders or things that aren’t good for the body. How do communities evolve that kind of an immune system to combat fraud or gaming? How do you strike a balance between the autonomy of the individual, self-sovereignty, thriving and doing what you think is best versus protecting the community from people trying to take advantage of that openness and freedom?

I think that is a hard balance to achieve. We cannot have an absolutely zero immune system or the gaming and the fraud will happen. But we also do not want to make everything highly controlled and top down either. Where do we find that balance? And how will that work? - precis of Nori - 24:03

Mihaela Ulieru - Who decides which are the values in a community?

I would add, who decides which are the values in a community? I think this is still an open question. - precis of Mihaela - 25:27

Noah – There is such a thing as morality, there are such things as virtues.

I don’t think that any of us here are moral relativists or at least we ought not to be.

There is such a thing as morality, there are such things as virtues.

I think that regardless of who is included in the community there are certain moral facts that can be agreed upon. And when people disagree with the entire infrastructure, perhaps they disagree with human rights, those might be instances in which actors are behaving in bad faith.

In such instances they cannot be expected to contribute to the goal of the product or the group. When they do such a thing they ought to be corrected. It’s for their own good that they be corrected. - precis of Noah - 25:46

Ricardo - Catalyst is in its infancy

I think it’s a little bit too early to be having this discussion. Catalyst is in its infancy. We wouldn’t be here today if it wasn’t for IOHK.

If Catalyst is not able to collaborate with a commercial organization, it doesn’t bode well for the future. It is an important relationship to establish.

If you say we are so organized now we don’t need any sort of institution, any sort of governmental body. You’re putting yourself way out there. And I don’t think Catalyst is ready if anybody were to analyse where we’re at now. - precis of Ricardo - 26:52

Heinz - Not everyone will be able to play the pilot

I think we are coming from a from a very good central body with IOHK. Let us be happy that there is no crisis to take over as a community. We have a very good central driving force behind roles such as the voter or community advisor or veteran community advisor.

There might be concentric circles, basic topics to govern and delicate topics. Like if we are founding an airline. There are many basic topics but not everyone will be able to play the pilot. So, there might be a kind of a concentric circle that is need or merit based. We are in the very early beginning of this journey, which is super fascinating. - precis of Heinz - 29:05

Aharon - Joining a community is a little bit like falling in love.

The discussion of the value is always vague, but it is very important. I can testify from my own experience being part of communities. Joining a community is a little bit like falling in love. When you fall in love you see in your partner only the positive aspects and ignore the things that later will be annoying.

When you join in a community you have this feeling that you have found your place, and everybody shares the same values. So, this is the great right place for you to grow. But as the time goes by you see where your values are not actually the same as others. Then conflict arises, this is the time to decide whether to continue together or to separate.

I’ve seen many communities’ members choose to separate and the communities broke apart. The building of the infrastructure for dealing with conflict is very important from the beginning.

Governance is not just decisions about budgeting or about protocol changes it is also about the process. Discussion on the process may be a little bit meta. But it is very important that we have a process to create changes in decision making.

I am very happy that IOG started with the iterative process that we now implement in Catalyst funding. We are not starting from zero. - precis of Aharon - 30:17

Mihaela Ulieru - Do you feel as a community that you are not sufficiently heard?

Can I ask something Aharon. Do you feel as a community that you are not sufficiently heard?

Because you said we need to change things and engage more people. I do not know how to understand that. Is this something which is not observed by IOG or you did not communicate it to them? - precis of Mihaela - 33:05

Aharon – We need to consider how we scale

I personally do not believe that there is a gap of intercommunication between the Catalyst community and IOG. I think there is now the appropriate channels of communication.

But we do need to consider how we be scalable to large numbers as well. It is a challenge for every community and it’s true for us as well. - precis of Aharon - 34:03

Mihaela Ulieru - What is not enough from IOG?

I want more substance to what is not enough (from IOG). Maybe we cannot know, but just think about it. Eventually together. I’m just building a bridge from the other side now, although I’m not representing them (IOG), but I can think from their shoes. - precis of Mihaela - 35:09

Ernesto - Patterns and principles of living systems.

I would like to go back to this question of community and values and bring two other words into the conversation that I find have been important. In my experience of putting community together the first one is understanding the exact purpose of why we are here. Another word is much more powerful. That is the intention. If there is a pure intention and that is aligned with that purpose, I think that is what brings the community together.

I think that goes beyond values. What is our purest intention? Because everything is karmic, interrelated, and collective.

I would like to bring into the conversation, beyond values, the principles of life. Patterns and principles of living systems. We are not going to go through this threshold if we do not resonate and are aligned with the patterns and principles of living systems.

They are so simple once you understand them. Because it is just the journey of the universe. My question, addressed to technicians, is it possible to code with the patterns and principles of living systems? Is even discussed?

What are we coding as technicians, coders, language creators? Is the coding that is thought now from the old paradigm, transactional and extractive ? The difference with Cardano is that it is thinking beyond monetization. It is bringing in this possibility of having this conversation. - precis of Ernesto - 35:51

Oscar - Young people not interested in big stories anymore.

I was searching for a term and then Ernesto brought it to my mind. Intention that is beyond values that I was what I was looking for. We should look at the need of this generation’s intention.

I’m over 30 years old but work with young people in the university as a researcher. I see that their intention is that they are not interested in big stories anymore. They are interested in individual stories, and they like to share individual stories.

Before, our religions and national stories used to govern people. In a country like Turkey these narratives are very strong. If you are a religious and nationalist politician, then you are likely to be voted.

But this generation is looking for something else. They want to be more connected. Blockchain is bringing an interesting narrative that is more likely to connect people than the Internet does. In Turkey young people especially are interested in blockchain.

Of course, values and norms are important, we can generate these things together. But we should look at the young generations need and ensure that we always promote the individual stories. If we do that, I think we will bring the new Charles Hoskinson onboard, the new Mihaela onboard.

I believe we will see great things happening in in our ecosystem. As Mihaela mentioned, we borrow resources from the next generation. So we have to do something for them and empower the younger generation. - precis of Oscar - 39:00

Mihaela - Playing the social game with different values.

There are many issues which arise here. The first one which jumped out at me is that there is a lot to learn from what is happening in Turkey right now. We can also look at a top down IOG or Charles itself as the power structure giving power to the community.

And individuals, which are here, each of us with our voices are creating a new game. By the way, Heinz, a new game. It involves rules, for example, only pilots, qualified people can pilot the aircraft. So, yes, there are rules in the game, but we’re still playing the game. It is a game. I hope so at least.

Secondly, I don’t know if the purpose is to create a new Charles. I think Charles has the problem of giving up this power to the community. We can learn a lot from the young people. I agree with empowering individuals. But also empowering them to listen to each other and play the social game with different values. - precis of Mihaela - 41:43

Nick – The power of archetypes

The old paradigm is trying to use this word community to cover everybody. Trying to define all the values and intentions as one big community. We are at a stage right now where we really must separate.

Google’s Project Aristotle identified what worked for one team didn’t work for another. One team loved to aggressively talk over each other. Whereas like another team doing that would not be so good. They would like to raise hands or go around in a circle.

So, I think we need to start to drop this down a little bit. That is why I believe in the power of archetypes. If we think about archetypes, we can think about the whole community as a circle. And Carl Jung’s archetypes then are each 12 slices of that pie. The Rebels might be the ones who are going to be crazy revolutionary, a little more aggressive. And that might not work for the lovers or the caregivers. You just want to make sure everybody gets their voice heard. But we need to create separate environments for everybody to be heard. That is where the values are going to get decided.

If we try to do it as one big, worldwide community we are going to struggle. We are going to have all these conflicting interests. I think the psychological research with Jung and archetypes gives us a foundation upon which to build, to create those environments. Allowing those to be nurtured in their own ways, then they can kind of comeback as representatives to help build overall values and how general things function.

It all happens at the individual level. Consensus does not work if we involve millions of people. It only works when you empower that individual team who has frontline knowledge. They know what makes them successful, that is when consensus works. We are moving out of this stem cell range, and we need to allow the liver cell to be the liver cell and the heart cell to be the heart cell and the eye cell to be the eye cell. We cannot force each of these cells to do the same thing.

This is also covered in some great books like “The Innovators Dilemma” (1997), “The Innovators solution"(2003, Clayton Christensen) and “The E-Myth” (1986, Michael Gerber).

The first step is how do we start to really empower these different environments and teams. Then nurture them. Archetypes also provide an inherent play environment because not only are you learning about the project, the greater mission, the goal of the community, but you are also learning about yourself. It is an inherently gamified system. I learn about myself, how I interact with other people and how I drive my own innovation. - precis of Nick - 43:22

References:

Google’s Project Aristotle

Jungian Archetypes

Clayton Christensen

Michael Gerber

Felix - The biggest value we have is being ourselves.

Nicholas I am happy you are here. Because I want to go to the same direction. I also think consensus can be dangerous because it always aims for an idealistic perspective.

If everybody agrees then the way to fanatism is not so far anymore. There is a small border between Idealists and fanatics.

I would be worried about a conversation where everybody agrees. I would say, wait there is something wrong. Where is the diversity when everybody agrees? Where is the alternative? Is it really diversity to say we are all on the same page?

I think it’s not so important to say we have the same values. What matters much more is that I can understand and to respect your values. And that the other side also can understand and respect my values.

So, there is not a value is worth more than another one. There is only a difference. This difference, which is the beauty of diversity, is easy to scale. Nicholas, you said already with billions of users do you want to reach consensus? If you reach consensus then it’s dictatorship? Something is very wrong when you have billions of users created for one thing, let’s say for a whole bunch of protocols.

I think it is much more saying let’s develop everybody. The biggest value we have is being ourselves. When everybody has the environment and the possibility of being themselves. Then they can transform their potential into value, allowing them to serve people next to them in the environment. Then there doesn’t need to be a whole protocol.

It’s much more from a philosophical, humanistic point of view to say, hey, we are human. It can be as simple as that. - precis of Felix - 47:41

Yoram - We are here because of a survival need to change.

I completely agree with Felix and Nikolas. Pluralism is obviously excellent and good. On paper Cardano’s objective is to make this world better for all. But there is a challenge with everyone values.

Most of the people in the world live in a state of dictatorship. I think we are here, because of a survival need to change. At least myself. Most of us are not happy with the system we live in. For many of us it is a survival challenge that we want to create, to make this world a better for all.

Therefore, we’re in this blockchain (Cardano) not in other blockchains. Where the main goal of the blockchain is to create community. I would challenge that I must agree with everyone else’s value. There are some values in the world today, like human equality, just to give an example, which I don’t agree with.

I am dedicating my years now to do more on climate change. That is a survival need for the planet, for us. For me it’s not a game. I know that we have fun. And let’s enjoy it and make mistakes. It’s experiment and it’s amazing, incredible. But it goes further than a game. It is part of the lives we want to create going forward. - precis of Felix - 50:04

Noah – In a time of abundance, we have the luxury to say everybody can get what they need.

I wanted to celebrate Nicholas’s emphasis of the archetype because a lot of our manifestations of our personalities and our intentions are governed by in some sense by archetypes.

When we’re operating within a group, we are not just ourselves. We are also representing something that is more than one person. In a sense Charles is not Charles Hoskinson the person. Importantly to us Charles is an archetype of a certain type of leader. I would question a little bit the validity of the set of 12 archetypes because those are highly dependent on cultural contexts. But allowing the group to support the existence of certain archetypes is extremely valuable. In a time of abundance, we have the luxury to say everybody can get what they need.

We are in the era of Voltaire. Voltaire would sign off all his letters, “crush the infamous thing”. Do you guys know what he was talking about? He was talking about the Catholic Church and a conflict between the ability to speak freely and piety. Some people might think that piety is more valuable. Others might say freedom of speech is more important.

These are questions that we must negotiate over time. I think some of us will hit hard roadblocks when it comes to certain things such as equality. I can’t support a situation where a woman cannot own an address on the blockchain. Because she can’t own value. That is a major problem.

I wanted to ask a couple of questions of Ernesto, because he mentioned this powerful notion of the intention. And he said that it’s more powerful in some ways than values. I wanted to understand a little bit better from him what exactly what does it mean to have an intention? What is an intention? And what is the value winner? And when do they win? Are they the same? And when did they when did they conflict? - - precis of Noah - 53:02

References

Voltaire

  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaire
  • https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Voltaire
  • Quoi que vous fassiez, écrasez l’infâme, et aimez qui vous aime.
  • Whatever you do, crush the infamous thing, and love those who love you.
  • Letter to Jean le Rond d’Alembert (28 November 1762); This was written in reference to crushing superstition, and the words “écrasez l’infâme” (“Crush the Infamy”) became a motto strongly identified with Voltaire.

Ernesto - We are creating more than a community, we are creating a commons

Well, I hope I can answer. It is a very complex question that I don’t know if I have the words to describe.

I think if everything we do comes from our purest intention. And our intention is to be the truest self. What we do in our community is give permission to other people to be their true selves.

So that brings the focus of us into that relationship. And that is what builds the community. Focusing on understanding our purest intention. Why is it exactly that we’re doing this? And we’re doing this not for ourselves but from a holistic perspective, we’re doing it for the whole.

We are creating more than a community, we are creating a commons. This is something that each one of us needs to work in ourselves. Who are we bringing into this community? Is it the best version of ourselves? Are we putting our purest intention in what we’re doing here? Somebody mentioned truth, this would be the truest version of ourselves. - precis of Ernesto - 56:08

Ernesto / Noah - individual intention and the collective

Noah - So is the self-static? Is it innate? Or does it evolve over time? In your definition?

Ernesto - I hope it evolves over time.

Noah - As we learn more and does it exist in a vacuum? Or does it exist as a synthesis, across our relationships?

Ernesto - I don’t think any of us can exist in a vacuum.

Noah - So if we become a good community that will help us become the best version of our pure selves. Is that correct?

Ernesto – That is correct. If we come with the purest intention. Because all of us in our purest intention create the best collective version of what we are. Eventually, we’re all one. If we already believed that we are all one it would be kind of simple to put it together. But we have the complexity of our egos, our mandates and everything that is on our backs. - precis of Noah / Ernesto - 57:56

Noah / Ernesto - How do we as a community address the tragedy of the commons?

Noah - How do we as a community address the tragedy of the commons?

Ernesto - Elinor Ostrom came up with rules that are structured to the physical landscape Commons. I think this great discussion is now probably led by David Bollier. That is, how do we manage social and digital commerce. And it also did an incredible work in bringing these eight principles that govern the commons.

I think now we need to transition because technology has grown so exponentially that the commons that we are creating has the possibility of this new language that I mentioned. New systems are co evolving with this new language.

It is our responsibility to understand how to update these rules to manage the Boston Commons, differently. That became a kind of a desert. The commons that we are trying to create here actually needs to transcend community. The Commons, it’s more a verb. We are commoners and that demands activity. It’s a proactive action to prioritize what we want to build and to have a clear purpose and intention. - precis of Noah / Ernesto - 59:17

References

Tragedy of the commons

Elinor Ostrom

David Bollier

Ernesto - Definition [of the Tragedy of the Commons]

I can give you a definition [of the Tragedy of the Commons]. It is when we have a common asset, and the cost is distributed by everybody, but the benefit is individual.

There was the Boston Commons, everybody grazed their sheep and cows, because the grass was free. The incentive was to have as much a sheep as possible because you didn’t pay for the grass. But that created soil erosion. And that is happening at every level in the Amazon, in the oceans, etc. We have these free riders with this extractive mentality that are creating a tragedy of the commons. - precis of Ernesto - 1:01:47

Mihaela - What is the commons for us, for this community?

I think a point to take from this interaction now is to define what is the commons for us, for this community? Are the Commons the knowledge which we create, the rules or whatever? - precis of Mihaela - 1:02:59

Gary – Cardano as a natural system

Looking at what Ernesto was talking about natural systems, here I am, pulled over next to what happened to be a national cemetery in Minnesota. Here we’ve got this confluence of all these people who used to be and the sun.

If you take this idea that Ernesto was talking about natural systems, Cardano is already there and it’s a gift. It’s already happening.

If you take photons from the sun and follow them, they hit a plant and the plant creates some sugar, it’s tokenized sunshine. The tokenized sunshine in that plant, you eat a raspberry, the raspberry becomes you, you break down that tokenize sunshine and then it goes into all your cells.

What’s great about Cardano is this extension of nature. It is such a privilege to have this beautiful system that can take this tokenized sunshine in us now. And now we can go back to intention. Because you control three things, you can set an intention, you can take an action and let go. Those are the only three things that we control. If we look at those three things, setting intention, taking an action, and letting go. It’s that third thing the letting go that causes most of the suffering.

The Buddhist monk Thích Nhất Hạnh said that we’re called to love of the people in such a way that they feel free. So, what if Cardano was a system was an ecosystem?

Where the intent is loving other people in such a way that they feel free to manifest the sunlight that’s moving through their bodies. They can set intentions, take actions, and they can create communities. As a free being to associate and disassociate with people as they as they feel fit.

If there are incentives that are built into the system or distributed applications that incentivize certain behaviours then people can choose applications, choose communities. They can choose p2p (peer to peer) lending, insurance or whatever it is that this ecosystem manifests.

That is the beauty of this thing. We don’t have to have consensus on how we are going to come together as a community. I think if we just focus on creating fertile ground for people to choose the community, the way they want to evolve, just giving people the freedom and letting go of how things manifest. Then ultimately, we move together as a community and co create this together. Look at the principles that Nassim Taleb talks about in his book, Anti-fragile, because I think that will guide us.

Especially as Catalyst as a community needs to focus on building robust systems that are resilient, and anti-fragile. So, we don’t have to tinker or intervene. Because the more we have to tinker and intervene we’re going to get what we got. A system that’s just prone to corruption, manipulation, tinkering, finding consensus, pushing other people out and creating haves and have nots. What a tragedy that would be if Cardano ended up moving in that direction. - precis of Gary - 1:04:41

References

Thích Nhất Hạnh

Nassim Taleb

Mihaela - From our community there will be many spinoffs

I just want you to underline the importance of one thing, which was not mentioned before, before Gary brought it up here. I call them ad hoc regimes. From our community there will be many spinoffs. Around the archetypes, around the ways. And how you attract those who would join naturally.

Communities where I feel that I can communicate and that freedom. Where I choose my game. And when I say game, I don’t mean it’s not a serious game. I just mean this freedom that I must choose and to create and maybe recreate rules.

We must experiment with rules because we didn’t crack the nut yet. What are the true rules? If you imagine a t shirt with Game B is written on it and on the back when you turn, you see, “we don’t play” that means we are serious. Game A is the game which the current politics and industry is playing. - precis of Mihaela - 1:09:23

Gary - Set an intention, take an action, let go

If we go back to before there were cell phones, smartphones, and everybody glued to their screen. When I was a kid, we had to go and ring a doorbell, and invite someone to play a game.

If you can set an intention, take an action, let go. If the intention is to invite somebody to play this game and someone else joins the game. Now you build consensus around the rules of what it means to play the game. So, if we’re playing a game, are we playing the same game? Are we engaging in this game that has the same rules? If we have the capacity and ability to allow people to enrol other people in the possibility of playing a game. Maybe it is the creation of a Dapp that revolutionizes local food production and food distribution? Let’s play that game. Let’s play a game of reforestation. - precis of Gary - 1:10:52

Dean - If we can enable people to build the bridges, they will build them.

Before open source became famous as Linux there was another product that was far more valuable, far better suited to the industry and that was called BSD. BSD already existed and a gentleman by the name of Linus Torvalds rallied a group of people to enable creativity and innovation. He didn’t know where it was going to go. But what he did know was that the geopolitical environment, not the technology side, that was existing at that time was ripe for change.

This is one of the things that Charles [Hoskinson] has the capacity to do and help people understand. As we continue to move forward bridges are going to naturally evolve out of what’s happening in the environment.

People who were involved in open source who wanted to not just build but make a financial impact found out quickly that the reason that open source succeeded so well is because code was opened to examination. If they must, they will throw that code away and they will redesign the code.

The innovation structure is one of the things that is driving my interest inside this Cardano structure.

Another one is a striving for two types of values. One’s called value transfer. And then one that’s called value exchange. A value transfer is just something I’m just going to transfer to you. Artists will take some of the greatest pieces of creativity, and they’ll give it away. Then many artists want a full value exchange they would like something back for what they’ve received. One of the things that Cardano does is provide the ability to enable people to transfer value and to enable engagement in value exchanges.

If we can enable people to build the bridges, they will build them. Because they will be driven by the very value that sits inside of them to say, I value this enough, I will build the bridge, I will go and spend the hours, I will go and lift things, whatever it takes to build the bridge. We have the chance to not just enable changes that we’re seeing happening, but the existing geopolitical environment will fuel where we’re going. That is why Linux succeeded over BSD. At the time it wasn’t about the technology it was about the geopolitical environment. About what people were tired of. About how can I break myself away. Then they started to look for people to help them. - precis of Gary - 1:12:19

References

BSD

Linux

Mihaela - [open-source] a good example of the Commons

I’m old enough to have lived those times with Linux and all what you said in that story. This is such a good example of the Commons and how to catalyse a community to curate the commons. To make it perfect and better than anything else. This is, to me, a perfect example of what we can achieve. - precis of Mihaela - 1:19:10

Nori - There are things that have come before that we can learn from.

Thank you, Dean. That reminds me a lot that there are things that have come before that we can learn from that we shouldn’t just try to build from scratch. I was around in Tokyo back in 1992. And I started an ISP, using Linux, I think it was like version 0.98, patch level 14 from Slackware. And I’m putting in 30 Different floppy disks to load the whole thing because CD ROMs weren’t even invented yet.

About that time an article came out called “Cathedral in the Bazaar” about why open-source works. We see other examples, not just Linux, like Wikipedia. Who would have thought we’d have an open website where anyone can add, edit and we’ll create the world’s largest encyclopaedia? At the same time, Microsoft was building Encarta and doing this whole centralized kind of thing. And it didn’t win, because we, as a community and a collective are way more powerful.

I think there’s some important things that we need to remember like radical transparency through open source, you can see what everyone’s doing. So that brings your best game. The radical inclusivity of Wikipedia allows anybody to edit.

I think there are mechanisms there that we can learn from and incorporate into what we’re building here. This conversation has been amazing because it’s starting to connect a lot of the dots in my own head.

I think it was Felix was comment that really solidified this. It’s not really about values. As Ernesto said the intention and purpose are overriding because we can all come with different values. There are certain values and identities but not everybody has to buy into that for us to work together as a community. But the purpose or the intention to bring our best selves and to change the world and make something great here. I think those kinds of things are, are way more important. We should allow people of different values to come in and have, like burning man says radical inclusivity. But also, radical transparency. I love that Catalyst Circle and all these meetings are recorded and shared. So, anybody who’s curious can see what’s going on, there’s nothing happening behind closed doors. - precis of Nori - 1:19:55

References

Slackware

Cathedral in the Bazaar

Encarta

Nick - Not everybody has that freedom of choice.

Voltaire Cardano roadmap needs to really be cautious about how we are fertilizing the environment to call in these bridge builders.

One thing I would challenge Dean on is that while everybody here on average is that creator type the reality is that is a small percentage of people around the world. And not everybody has the inherent resources to have that full freedom of choice.

That is where Cardano can be a successful forerunner if they really focus on creating that environment. To give the have nots, to people who are in the frontlines dealing with these problems, with real world examples. To make this world better we must figure out ways to bring them into the conversation.

That’s why I like using something like archetypes, whether it’s Myers Briggs or union ones. You can get to a ton of different archetypes.

We are still at a at a less than 1% of our market share from an engagement standpoint, you know, our engagement in Cardano is really small. In the statistics of start-ups getting a 10% of the market share is a doable thing for many companies. But it is only when you cross 10 to 15% that you’ve crossed that chasm where you drive mainstream adoption.

Understanding that nature thrives in diversity, it’s not a monoculture. Monocultures have shown to be consistently problematic. How do we start providing for diversity, funding, and creating these environments so that the people can come in and have this freedom of choice? Because not everybody has that freedom of choice? - precis of Nick - 1:23:10

Ian - 10 principles of Burning Man

I really appreciate you bringing up these 10 principles of Burning Man. I think that radical inclusion, radical self-expression are essences that got lost in our culture.

Because there was right ways and wrong ways, acceptable and unacceptable, and it creates a lot of exclusion. That creates the haves and the have nots. How do we move towards inclusion? I think this idea of archetypes is something that could allow that for us to cut across our culture and society.

Because the research shows archetypes give us the capacity to do that. The research shows that as human beings we operate in archetypes. Parts of we fit into an archetypal structure that make sense to me and will not make sense to anybody that does not speak my language or live in my culture.

Through that application we can create a foundation to build on to create inclusion for everybody. Because we can all communicate and find ways to relate with those people that are like us.

I believe that nature tends to strive to find an equilibrium. So when we create an environment that is inclusive, it allows for the natural swings from one perception to another one, one expression to another. We welcome all of these if our governance is set up that will support us to find equilibrium. That equilibrium then is what will support the community as a whole and our growth and the foundational intention that we’re all operating from. - precis of Ian - 1:27:32

10 principles of Burning Man

Nori – Closing comments and feedback

I will open the floor for any final comments from people. As this was our first iteration of Cafe sur la pont I would like to get some feedback from you all on:

  • What worked?
  • What didn’t?
  • How can we improve for next time?
  • Does the open conversation format work?
  • Would you rather have us have an agenda or topics or …? So, we can iterate. Because we’re experimenting as well. And getting some good feedback at the end would be very valuable for us.- precis of Ian - 1:30:02

Mihaela - co-creating the right questions.

There are many questions. More questions, obviously, than answers. Asking the right question, it was brought up. I think we are co-creating the right questions here. This is is what is going on, at least for me. And it’s truly wonderful. What struck me now, with the last person who voted this way, you know, this is a tall order. What are we creating here? Is our goal to create the system on which is a world runs? This is huge. Although I know that Charles this is his vision.

It struck me now, how are you going to do it, so it works for every individual?

What system do I like? What is my goal as an individual? Is it in tune with the natural order of things? To flourish at my full capacity and to be able to express my creativity. For me personally, it is to contribute, that is when I really feel fulfilled.

And in what environment? I’m here to find and co-create an environment where everyone can flourish to their full capacity and for create a better world. To that extent, I can see if that would work for the for the whole world and nature.

Because this is the time of closing comments, I just wanted to have some feedback. I had a lot of wonderful feedback to my keynote at the Cardano summit. And what just happened, and for me, it kind of hurt, somebody in IOG did a blinder, and erased all the comments. I felt like this is a disconnect, like the Community Voices were cancelled. So how do we bring them in? Let’s create our own forum. Maybe we should also think of ways, invent some channels, in which maybe the control is not an authority and cannot be cancelled so easily. - precis of Mihaela - 1:31:02

Ernesto - David Bohm - “On Dialogue”

I want to thank all of you for the possibility of this space. I was struggling with your question [Nori] of whether we should have an agenda or not. And I at first, I thought it would be great. But an agenda would structure. And I come back to this this book by David Bohm about dialogue (“On Dialogue” 1996(. It is beautiful because Bohm suggests an open space for emergence. And I think we need that flexibility for our margins. I think this space is going to grow. It’s a space of, I believe, trustful relationships. And I think the basis of that are conditions for emergence. We need to think what conditions are needed for emergence. And I think this space provides this. - precis of Ernesto - 1:34:24

References

David Bohm

The ideal Catalyst ideation platform

The ideal Catalyst ideation platform
By Stephen Whitenstall |

The ideal Catalyst ideation platform.

John Wellesz
The ideal Catalyst ideation platform

In a CatalystCommunityAdvisors Telegram Post of 29th September 2021, John Wellesz and Rodrigo Pacini highlighted a collaborative Google Document which aims to ideate the ideal platform.

Rodrigo Pacini
The ideal Catalyst ideation platform

Further background

Further background was provided by Rodrigo Pacini in respect of Ideascale Improvements.